Post details: Is Wikipedia broke? Anti-cycles behaviour.

02/02/07

Permalink 05:17:49 pm, by RayTomes Email , 447 words, 1854 views   English (NZ)
Categories: Cycles

Is Wikipedia broke? Anti-cycles behaviour.

There has been a steady campaign to delete articles and categories relating to cycles from wikipedia, sometimes preceded by an effort to make them factually incorrect so that they are more worthy of deletion. I will deal with a single instance here, the deletion of the category:cycles.

The person proposing deletion (AFAIK because the detail is gone) was "Delete. No argument. siafu 23:22, 20 September 2005 (UTC)" who obviously gives no reason why there should not be a category called cycles.

The deletion article above finished with the comment "# Closing note. Discounted sock-puppet votes. 5 total, 4 del, 1 keep. ∞Who?¿? 01:58, 28 September 2005 (UTC)" which is presumably supposed to show that justice was done. Well I have counted the votes in the article and there are 5 for keep and 3 for delete. That is a majority for keep. The accusation of sock puppets is one made repeatedly in trying to delete cycles articles and has been specifically directed at me in the past. For those that do not know what a sock puppet is, it is a made up login to wikipedia that is really the same person, created for the purpose of double voting. I have never done this and I am pretty sure that there are no sock puppets involved in this case because I know a number of the names from an interdisciplinary cycles discussion forum (which exists and has 400 members in spite of the fact that these people claim there is no such area of study).

If there are sock puppets involved, the procedure that talleys votes should say who they are so they have a chance to reply otherwise the vote is simply being tampered with. I challenge those that run these things in wikipedia to account for their actions. This is not an isolated case.

The only validity to the arguments given for deletion was that several of the articles perhaps should not have been in the category. However given that being corrected (the obvious correct decision rather than deleting the category) the category did satisfy the stated objective of the reason for inclusion in the category being obvious.

A subsequent category:cycle was created and suffered a similar fate, largely because the deleters move in droves together and get something deleted before those who know about the subject are even aware of it. They even have clubs for organising these deletions. The argument put forward for deletion of this category was "Aside from the fact that these things occur in cycles, they have nothing in common". Well you might say that apart from all being countries, what do category:country have in common or any other category. That is the whole point of a category isn't it?

Comments:

Comment from: RayTomes [Member] Email · http://ray.tomes.biz/
I have begun a procedure in wikipedia for advocacy / requests at wikipedia advocacy and hope that this will set a few ripples going to reach elsewhere.

I state here: I think that there is a very serious problem in wikipedia when lesser known areas of study are repeatedly deleted or massacred because some ignorant people have not heard of them (and that is the main reason given for voting delete). Wikipedia is broke, what can be done to fix it?

And: In summary, cycles research is a perfectly respectable field practiced by and supported by a number of nobel prize winners. Accusations of numerology, pseudo-science and other such nonsense are repeatedly made and votes cast on that basis - by people who spend less than 1 minute looking at the material. There are groups organised to delete articles in categories simply because the subject matter is unknown to the semi-educated people in them. Allowing such groups equal voting rights to people who study in the field is foolish. To disallow votes from knowledgeable people because they recently joined wikipedia to vote on something they know a lot about is unwise. To discount votes as sock puppets when they certainly are not is mischevious. To not state clearly which votes are being discounted is a miscarriage of justice.
PermalinkPermalink 03/02/07 @ 15:23
Comment from: RayTomes [Member] Email · http://ray.tomes.biz/
I have added an entry to the CZ (citizendium) blog entry about wikipedia problems citizendium and wikipedia problem areas

People might be interested in CZ as an alternative - it is very early days but they have at least recognised the need for experts. This might be a two edged sword as experts often "know" that new ideas are wrong. See citizendium pilot.
PermalinkPermalink 03/02/07 @ 16:18
Comment from: RayTomes [Member] Email · http://ray.tomes.biz/
As a result of my complaint about wrong vote counting and removal of a cycles category, user SilkTork was assigned to the case. He has worked with me at looking at the issues in a fair and balanced way.

He asked me whether I wanted to deal with the complaint about procedures or just get material re-established that was wrongly removed, such as the category for cycles articles, which he agreed was not a proper decision. I agreed to do the latter, re-establishment.

Recently he re-established the article on The Foundation for the Study of Cycles and I did some work on tidying it up, but more remained to be done.

Yesterday I spent many hours reviewing over 1000 wikipedia articles on cycles. The problem is that "cycles" has multiple meanings, being wheeled things that people ride, processes such as the carbon cycle, collections such as in music and mythology, and finally repeating phenomena. I was only interested in this last group and found 44 articles that reasonably belonged in such a category. I created the category and put it into those 44 articles.

This morning I arrived to find that all the work that I had done was deleted, the category was removed and the FSC article put there by SilkTork was also deleted. I was blocked from editing anything in wikipedia except my own talk page. The person who did this goes by the name "Ruud Koot" - go figure.

Well, my contention that Wikipedia is broke is not about to be changed at this point in time.
PermalinkPermalink 16/03/07 @ 15:26
Comment from: RayTomes [Member] Email · http://ray.tomes.biz/
[My blog software is also broke! This comment should be after the one that follows.]

Well I got unblocked, but in order to stop me doing things people put a series of articles up for deletion or merger. Although there was no successful vote for deletion or merger, the article on the 9.6 year cycle in Canadian Lynx abundance was merged with the article on the Lynx and then deleted, although has now been added back as a merge by SilkTork I think.

Unfortunately with other changes to stuff concerning people assisting others with their problems, SilkTork has now thrown in the towel, not just for me but the whole job. I don't blame him, he did a good job and got flack for it. However it leaves me high and dry with an ever increasing list of grievances that I don't know how to address.

It seems that there are two types of people in any enterprise. Those that do things, and those that learn to work the politics. At the start the first type dominates, but after a while the second type takes over and stops all useful work. This is the very method by which wisdom becomes religion; understanding becomes tradition; science becomes dogma; Wikipedia becomes broke.
PermalinkPermalink 16/04/07 @ 08:23
Comment from: RayTomes [Member] Email · http://ray.tomes.biz/
User SilkTork was very helpful to me. I am grateful for that help, but he unfortunately withdrew from all guidance of people with wikipedia problems, saying "I was not unhappy to be working with you. My withdrawal relates entirely to the nature of AMA."

After a while I asked for someone else to take on guiding me through these problems to try and get cycles pages properly set up. Recently user Seraphimblade has accepted that role. I am again hopeful of getting useful and usable cycles material established in wikipedia in the near future.

These ongoing discussions can be read on our user pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:RayTomeshttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:RayTomes&redirect=no#Your_assistance_request
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade#Cycles_related_articles
PermalinkPermalink 11/05/07 @ 20:35
Comment from: RayTomes [Member] Email · http://ray.tomes.biz/
There is a bug in b2evolution relating to comment sorting. The above are not ordered in time, so please understand that. Well they should have been above, but some are below. :-)
PermalinkPermalink 12/05/07 @ 03:41
Comment from: Valintino [Visitor] Email
Hello, Your site is great. Regards, Valintino Guxxi
PermalinkPermalink 16/08/07 @ 06:31

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Wobbly Universe

Blog of Ray Tomes research on cycles, news reports on cycles, my original research on the Harmonics Theory and discussion of these matters.

There are cycles in everything. There are cycles in the weather, the economy, the sun, wars, geological formations, atomic vibrations, climate, human moods, the motions of the planets, populations of animals, the occurrence of diseases, the prices of commodities and shares and the large scale structure of the universe. None of these are independent of each other.

Research shows that very different disciplines often find the same cycle periods in their data. The inter-relatedness of all things is an idea who's time has come. The study of cycles is an excellent way to understand this because the periods of cycles are as easy to recognise as fingerprints or DNA sequences.

"The universe, believe it or not, is nothing other than a giant musical instrument with a very special but predictable pattern of harmonically related oscillations which determine the structure of everything from galactic clusters to subatomic particles and we are just parts of the various vibration modes."

The single axiom of the Harmonics Theory is that:

The Universe consists of a standing wave which develops harmonically related standing waves and each of these does the same.

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